Curse

Lishy · Aug 30, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Until I mained my Paragon and aimed for r1 People Know Me, I mained my Assassin.
Seeing how many people are using em these days, I am kinda starting to miss mine.
Especially since I have been using AP on nearly all of my characters and I want to try out AP on the assassin itself(If anyone has builds, please post ^-^)

Anyways, Any news with Assassin's over the past few months? I keep hearing "Perma-sin this, perma-sin that."
All I know is Sin's being the master of weapons and their SY spam

Light Aura · Aug 30, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Um AP sins aren't that great

But now sins aren't the master of all weps quite as much with the nerf to [way of the assassin] making it only usable for daggers

and finally yes perma-sins are quite good now because you can make sf last forever again. Th ecombo is [glyph of swiftness] + [deadly paradox] + [shadow form]

FlamingMetroid · Aug 30, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light Aura

display of lack of knowledge

lolwut? perma sin should only be used for farming and [way of the assassin] was never used anyway because of [way of the master]...

spam MS/DB with [Save Yourselves] and/or [asuran scan] for best results

AP builds are ok, and have become more powerful because of the [asuran scan] buff, but dont really see much use outside of NM. Scythe sins are also pretty fun, and even effective in easier HM areas.

Tyla · Aug 30, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Scythe crits are awesome. Pair it with a sundering, you get sundercrits a few times, and it's super awesome.

Lishy · Aug 31, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Scythe crits are awesome. Pair it with a sundering, you get sundercrits a few times, and it's super awesome.

I am a bit skepitcal about the sundering mod. Can you explain its usefulness even with an activation of 20%?

Molock · Aug 31, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

A sundering hit with a scythe is nice, even more so when you also critical. That's why its useful imo. Big domages ftw

Edit: Also, what other mod would you recommend for a scythe (on an assassin)? Don't say elemental damage scythe because you should one of those anyway

snaek · Aug 31, 2008, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

I am a bit skepitcal about the sundering mod. Can you explain its usefulness even with an activation of 20%?

a scythe crit is the -highest- normal attack dmg possible in teh game
and therefore takes the most bonus dmg from a sundering mod

aside from teh bigger bonus dmg
scythe sins generally do not have an ias (unless pve)...
and cannot take full advantage of a vamp mod

-Lotus- · Aug 31, 2008, 06:15 AM // 06:15

vamp still adds far more DPS than a sundering mod. you shouldnt bother with sundering unless you are spiking in PvP.

Turbobusa · Aug 31, 2008, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Vamp as a second scythe mod. Stay with sundering for the rest.
Anyway if you go crit scythe bring a chanelling/smite ritualist along, JI makes up for the elemental scythe

Lishy · Aug 31, 2008, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Any updates with the A/R and A/P builds?
I think I've seen some new Assassin builds that use Incidinary(SP?) Arrows.

And I still think the percentage of sundering is too low to be of any usage..

Steps_Descending · Aug 31, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

And I still think the percentage of sundering is too low to be of any usage..

That's probably true, but I'd be denpted to say that the point of sundering is to make the biggest crit in the game, even if it only happen once in 15 hit (random number).

By the way, to those who use it, how often do you crit in PvE (and where) and how much damage is a sunder-crit?

EDIT : after a quick searsh from GuildWiki, at 12 scythe mastery and 12+1+2 critical strike.

You have about 19% of crit from SMastery
15% from CriticalStrike
33% from WotMaster
15% from CritEye

That would mean 80% vs a lv20 target. 4 hits out of 5. If sunder kicks in 20% : 4 hits out of 25. (aprox : 1 out of 6).
Since vamp adds 5 dmg, a sunder crit must add 30 dmg to be on par with vamp.

That is vs a near-lv20 target, and considering the crit chances stack instead of combine(like blocking chance), and of course the efficiency decreases with higher lvl...
On a brighter note, siphon strenght adds 33% without points in Deadly Arts.

-Lotus- · Aug 31, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Vamp will always output more DPS. i dont know why any of you are advocating sundering...

Turbobusa · Aug 31, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Because targets die so fast I can't DPS.
It's more something like a constant spiking. Thus sundering. When I go critscythe, I (again, usually) hit my target 3 times. Wounding strike, mystic, malicious, dead.
Vamp gives me 9 damage.
Woohoo, not gonna make a difference.

Tyla · Aug 31, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Because sundercrits on scythes are loldamage.

@Turbobusa: It will actually give you 27 damage if you're counting all 9 hits.

Turbobusa · Aug 31, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

True, forgot the 3 targets. But where vampiric gives 9 life steal, it also gives 50% chance to have just one of those hits have sundering trigger.

With the very high crit chances you have, it is about 40% of the time you're going to sundercrit.

But that's assuming you hit 3 targets at a time.
It just shows that in the case of a single target, it is going to die too fast for vamp to have a decisive effect, and in the case of 3 targets touched, well it is outdone by sundering (Lol I can't event imagine saying that 2 years ago)

Again go with whatever you want, but from my experience mobs die too fast for vamp to have a noticable effect.

The Meth · Aug 31, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

When combined with aura of holy might sundering is quite effective. With all of the multiplications to base damage going on that boost sundering but not vampiric (max damage + 41% (critical) + 15% + 20% (mods) + 41-75% (AoHM)) sundering can hit some very high numbers.

Sundering criticals (10% chance per hit assuming 50% critical rate) will do about 35 extra damage against 60 armor, while a non-critical sundering attack adds about 15 damage on average. Total, thats 5 extra damage per hit average, assuming max titles and against an armor of 60. Vampiric will do better as armor increases, while Sundering gains if you have a higher critical rate (using malicious strike or you add another buff).

Sundering sucks ass on everything else though.

snaek · Aug 31, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

ummm....vamp scythe is -5

vamps -best- situation is when used wit 33%ias

sunders -best- situation is a scythe crit

a crit scythe sin's typical attack = a non-ias'd sunder crit

sooooo...thats y a sunder mod -should- be better

if it is indeed not....
sundering mod re-buff plz?

----

for numbers (vs 60al target):

9-41 dmg scythe

78 dmg crit

96 dmg sunder crit

(if my calcs r correct)
crits = max dmg * 1.4142
sunder = crit dmg * 1.2311
and then add 15% inscr, +20% customization

The Meth · Aug 31, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Vamp absolutely beats sundering unless you are using [Aura of Holy Might], preferably at a fairly high rank. Also every scythe sin worth their salt should be using [Critical Agility], both sundering and vampiric get the same 50% damage boost from IAS btw.

snaek · Aug 31, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

sundering charrslayer scythe + [vow of strength] + [aura of holy might] + [asuran scan] gogogo

The Meth · Aug 31, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

sundering charrslayer scythe + [vow of strength] + [aura of holy might] + [asuran scan] gogogo

Nah, drop the charrslayer and get a demonslayer, then add in another 40% lightbringer bonus, then another 25% from By Ural's Hammer!. Have an ally cast Ebon Battle Standard of Honor, res you with vengeance, then buff you with Great Dwarf Weapon. If Mallyx couldn't remove hexes or enchantments I bet you could smack him down in 10 seconds.